Get Observed Teaching By Someone With No Teaching Experience?

By Ariel Sacks

12/30/12

UnknownI was about to write a searing post about an organization I knew next to nothing about, but upon looking further, I've changed my opinion.  Here's the chain of events leading to a new conclusion. 

Basically, I saw a job post on Idealist.org by a non-profit organization called Turnaround for Children, looking for--

"former teachers, education researchers, and current graduate students in social sciences and education to visit schools in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Harlem, and Queens to conduct systematic observations of teachers' classrooms. Observers will receive training in a widely-used observation protocol (Classroom Assessment Scoring System (CLASS)), and will use this protocol to observe classrooms in various school settings." 

At first this sounded alright to me. My mind ran with the idea of former teachers conducting observations of teachers in various contexts--being that external person to balance out any bias that principals and other school-based observers may have. That could be a good thing.

Then I read on to the job requirements:

  • Bachelor's degree in education, social sciences or related fields of study required. Teacher certification or former classroom experience preferred.
  • Experience in performing classroom observations preferred (experience with CLASS protocol preferred); experience in quantitative or qualitative data collection preferred.

This is where I started getting red in the face.  So, the organization would ideally have experienced teachers conduct the observations (though one year could constitute experience, I suppose), but they would actually settle for people with no teaching experience observing--and evaluating?--practicing teachers?

I decided to read up on the organization. Here is their website, and here is an article, Addressing Poverty In Schools, by Joe Nocera about the history of the organization and its founder, Dr. Pamela Cantor. They seem to have a good mission, in which they come into struggling schools and work with the most at risk students--those students who have been traumatized and are just not getting what they need in the school's regular structures. From experience, I know that there is a good handful of students in every high needs school that need more than the regular classroom structures and relationships can give them to address the issues they face and prepare them to be students.  When these needs go unmet, such students can act out severely and really upset a whole school environment.  If this organization, founded by a psychiatrist, has found a way to fill this need, I'm in favor.

Here, also, is a blog post by teacher Larry Ferlazzo, called "Mixed Feelings About 'Turnaround For Children'." I wonder, like Larry Ferlazzo does, why the DOE doesn't build the capacity of its own teachers and counseling staff, through additional hires and hybrid roles, to do this work internally.

Back to the question of non-teacher observers. On the one hand... my guess is that these outside observers, trained to use CLASS, are measuring the effects of the intervention program itself.  I've often said that data collection cannot reasonably be added as a duty for teachers on top of everything else we do.  So hiring outside people could be a decent alternative.  

I also wonder, are these observations also used as part of teacher evaluations? Is this one of the "multiple measures" being implemented in addition to testing data?  My understanding is that in turnaround schools, principals have the right to dismiss teachers quickly. I'm a little hazy on whether principals must use due process once the initial "restructuring" takes place. If so, I'm worried that observations done by individuals with no teaching experience would be used to determine who is effective and who is not, and that would be neither fair nor accurate.

Would we ever see outsiders with no experience in the field evaluating other types of professionals' work? Can you imagine doctors or lawyers being observed by, say, me with a little training and a rubric?  I highly doubt it. I'm hoping that the data used from these observations is purely for the organization to assess its own work.  Then, it's still not ideal (as the organization has stated), but probably won't be doing any damage to practicing teachers either. 

In Nocera's article, I learned that Turnaround for Children has been meeting with officials in Congress and the White House about its work and, we can assume, the possibility of extending it to schools across the country.  This could be a very good thing if the organization is really building the capacity of schools to meet the psychological needs of traumatized students. An independent evaluation of the organization in 2008 suggested that the positive impact was strong, but that Turnaround needed to "put more emphasis on improving the academic environment in the classroom" (also from Nocera's article).  I imagine this is where data from the CLASS becomes important, and where the observations would need to be conducted by impartial outsiders. 

I think I've turned around my own assessment of Turnaround For Children and the work of Dr. Cantor.  I would just caution the organization, and others that are being called on to work with teachers to improve schools, to remember that teaching is highly skilled, professional work. If we don't treat teachers as professionals, we'll never have the schools we want and that students need. Every step toward real transformation must be taken with this in mind. Otherwise, it's easy to have the best intentions, but undermine the very people you need to carry out the change. We will never move forward that way.

 

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Comments

Growing problem in our school district

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 2012-12-31 13:15

Outside organizations coming in to rate teachers is not the only issue. It is not uncommon in my high school to find that even second and third year teachers are named as department chairs and/or teacher leaders. These people are required to observe and give feedback to other teachers who may or may not even be teaching a subject with which the observer is familiar. In addition, teachers with as little as one year of experience are supervising student teachers. And many administrators in our district have very few years of classroom experience and sometimes even less in administrative practice. We even have administrators who have no teaching certificate but do have an administrative certification.

School districts have become more then ever ruled by politics and favoritism. Those who support the latest new "initiative" (which usually comes with a dollar cost and not necessarily a track record of success) are viewed as team players, the nicest thing an administrator can say about the staff.

I totally agree with the observation that other reputable professions do not operate this way but rather value experience and a knowledge base.

The Power of Teacher to Teacher PD

Submitted by Peter Pappas (not verified) on Mon, 2012-12-31 17:38

I agree that "teaching is highly skilled, professional work," and I've seen the benefits of teachers observing colleagues practicing their craft.

Here's short guide: "Teacher-Led Professional Development: Eleven Reasons Why You Should be Using Classroom Walk Throughs" http://bit.ly/nJZGg4

And here's how we used them in whole school reform "Learning Walks: The Power of Teacher to Teacher PD" http://bit.ly/rovLRn

INsightful analysis

Submitted by Alice in PA (not verified) on Tue, 2013-01-01 13:10

You make excellent points. There is a dangerous trend to evaluate teachers using one size fits all rubrics designed by people without extensive classroom experience. Teaching is contextual. It is fluid. A good teacher uses the students responses and actions to teach. While activities can be planned, the minute by minute happenings in the classroom are a constant negotiation between the students and the teacher, along with all the prior experiences brought by both. This does not fit into a rubric with check boxes, especially if it is not a long term observation of at least a week and does not include lengthy conversations with the teacher about their plans and their performance. What can seem like chaos or confusion or a waste of time can actually be promoting meaningful learning. Sometimes it is just chaos or confusion or a waste of time. It takes experience and deep conversations to distinguish between the two. Even experienced teachers will need to be taught to critically observe a classroom. As a 20 year veteran teacher who has also been a mentor, it is a different skill set to observe and constructively critique another teacher. But it can be one of the most productive experiences for both parties. I learned a lot about my own teaching by critiquing others. Unfortunately Turnaround for Children, the DOE and other organizations are not willing to make that investment.

Get Observed Teaching By Someone With No Teaching Experience?

Submitted by Pete Laberge (not verified) on Wed, 2013-01-02 02:18

On the other hand..... This lack of hands on teaching experience could be part of the method, of the technique, of the system. It might, in some cases be a requirement...

Teaching, I am sorry to say, is not rocket science. Ordinary people have been doing it for many years.

Having people observe who have NO experience, and NO Bachelor of Ed, would be PREFERRED. Why? No preconceived notions or prejudices. As quick and dirty example: I myself have often learned a lot more from people who were NOT teachers.

Look, the students that are theoretically taught, observe the teachers daily. Unfortunately, often, nobody cares about their opinions. Very often, the student is not in a position to have an opinion. "Insufficient life experience" just being one possible reason. There are many others. Thus, we will likely only find out in 20 years or more, if anybody benefited. And by then we will have paid the teacher/professor to do just what? Show up? So, using outsiders may be part of the logic, for some reason.

CONSIDER: Oh, a student might indeed have some VERY good criticisms and observations. And he has no B.ed. No teaching experience. Are we to say these rankings/assessments do not matter?

Sorry. I have seen a few teachers at work in my day. Some were good. Some should not have been allowed within 50,00 miles of a student. Indeed, calling yourself a professional, and being a professional, are two different things. And justifying yourself with jargon, and largely unproven theories.... or theories that only work in certain situations, can be risky, and bad.

Educational theories tend to have more holes than sieves. The "Theory of Why Johnny Learns", and the "Theory of Gravity", are NOT AT ALL in the same league! Do note that scientists use the word "Theory" in a very special sense. Teachers and Educators tend to use the word "Theory" as so: "I think this, and so does Bob, and it was at the conference last week. So it must be right." .... This may well be the case. Or you might be very wrong. I have seen it happen.

You say: "Would we ever see outsiders with no experience in the field evaluating other types of professionals' work? Can you imagine doctors or lawyers being observed by, say, me with a little training and a rubric? I highly doubt it."

My goodness! Can you be any more wrong?

First of all, if a doctor makes a mistake between your having cancer or an upset knee bone, you can die from it. And it can happen dammed quickly. Just ask my father. Oh, wait: he died! That is serious! And YES they have made such boo-boos! Some got caught.... Some not!

BUT: A teacher, may have a student for one or 2 courses, one or 2 years. He could be a complete obliviot, and retire on a nice pension. Too many have! I have seen that happen! A teacher COULD make a person's life, or ruin it, or probably have darn little effect. It takes decades to find out.... if we ever do!

And a lawyer? Well he might be the difference between your going free, or getting the electric chair. That would be important no? And by golly, they have erred as well... Our jails are full of examples!

And do note that while some witch doctors, and no good lawyers have been found out, some have not. Why you could say that for any field! Teaching included! Gardeners, too!

As for being observed, or rated, or graded, or evaluated by outsiders.... MY!

Have you never picked a doctor? Lawyer? Dentist? Mechanic? But you were an outsider! Where is your phd in law, medicine, dentistry, or mechanics? How many years experience?

And if you were referred to one? Or if you went to a website and studied up on one? And did you ever tell someone "Go see my !"??? Sure you have. And you seemed to assume you had the qualifications and experience. And, yet, you probably did! Think about it!

"Assessment" -- It happens all the time. And the amount of experience, training, education, etc varies widely. Both in the one assessing, and in the one being assessed!

I assume that the people running this "CLASS" outfit, have their reasons for what and why they are doing it. Are they doing good or evil? I do not know. We may not be able to determine that for years! And that, I think, is a concern!

They do say they offer some training in doing what they want the people to do. And unless someone has done this work for over a year, they will ALL have NO experience in it. Even if they have 3 B.Ed's and a 1,000 years of teaching experience....

As for rubrics or other stuff like that, I would assume their employer has already worked out a list of things they must look out for, etc. (Whether their "system" is any good? A very different matter! And that would bother me!)

The issue, at hand to me, would more be:
Whether CLASS and Company have done their R&D work properly. And what ax they are trying to grind. And what theory they are testing or promoting, What is their purpose, their end goal? Who is behind them? Why? And that, is something you should be much more concerned with. For me, it does not matter so much. I have other issues of much more immediate concern. But you, you should be concerned! I would expect you to do the research and report back to us!

I can (and possibly do) understand your fears, as they are the same as mine:
I would not want a dentist who never worked on a patient, an tax preparer who never did a tax return before, or a lawyer fighting his first case. But the dentist who has worked for 25 years, had to start somewhere....
Mind you, hiring a teacher who has not got a B.Ed and 20 years of experience, why who would want such a person teaching his kids?
Get the point?

I have no idea what "CLASS" is. Nor do I care. It is immaterial. It is only your argument that only an "educator" with a B.Ed (or more), and more than one year of experience in teaching can observe a teacher and make a useful judgement, which scares me....

I hope you are not a working teacher. I hope your student's parents never read what you just wrote. Because, they will judge you. Immediately.... Mind you, they may do nothing with it.... So do not panic.

Hope instead, that they judge you or another teacher/instructor/prof, on results. They may know a student who had a certain teacher before, and talk to him/her or the parents. They may judge based on how their child learns. Or feels. Their criteria may vary widely!

Or, if it is a matter of adults being taught, it is not hard either to find out that "Old Doc Martin is one HELLA guy." On the other hand, one can also find out that Doc Smith knows all about economics, but no one can understand what he purports to teach or profess!

Do consider that their system, and their goals and methods, are much more important than whether their assessors have much teaching experience or not. I would assume/hope they do not throw people to the wolves. A newbie probably goes out with a more experienced hand for at least the first few sessions. No doubt there is training and practice first.

And if they do NOT train, practice, mentor, and review the work done.... Then, I would be terrified of these people. And I would have zero faith in them. Do please consider that aspect, kind sir.

As to whether the problems of schools and school systems around the world can ever be solved, or matter improved....? Ugh. Another can of worms.

Don't dismiss outside observers so quickly

Submitted by Veronica (not verified) on Wed, 2013-01-02 14:43

"Would we ever see outsiders with no experience in the field evaluating other types of professionals' work?"

Actually yes, this happens every single day in the marketplace. I've never worked on my own car's engine, never prepared or assembled a wide range of ethnic cuisines, never renovated a bathroom, etc., but I "evaluate" these professionals every day when I make decisions about where to take my car, where to go out to eat, whom to hire to work as a contractor, etc. The craft of teaching (I'm a former public school teacher) is not so mysterious or esoteric as to preclude non-educators from evaluating teachers. If anything, as most families in the U.S. currently have no choice in who their children's teachers will be, these kinds of evaluations could be helpful in providing data for schools to make better hiring and retention decisions. Just a thought.

You are right

Submitted by Dave Greene (not verified) on Wed, 2013-01-02 17:22

There is no one better able to mentor (I find that the best word) a new, inexperienced teacher or a teacher who needs help than one who has already mastered the practice of teaching.

I owe my success to those who have mentored me along the way and I have done my best to help new teachers where I could. Most recently I even helped TFA corps members through my job as a field specialist at Fordham University's Graduate School of Ed. My 38 years of experience with many different types of students make me and others like me better candidates for working in schools than what we see now.

If there are not enough in house teachers to mentor, districts should look to their own retirees or retirees like me who are nearby for help.

This is really a nice video

Submitted by Donna Bivens (not verified) on Tue, 2013-03-12 08:05

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